In an exclusive interview with Annahar and Randa Takieddine, French President Emmanuel Macron said recent events show that Syria’s future requires more than normalization with Syrian President Bashar Assad, whom he said cannot be an agent of Iran and act against the security of Israel and the stability of Lebanon.
You are making a state visit to Saudi Arabia. What are your expectations in bilateral terms, having recently received a Saudi business delegation, the minister of investment, and the director of Saudi Aramco?
This will be my third visit to Saudi Arabia. The prime minister and crown prince has also visited Paris several times, and we are in regular contact. This state visit is particularly important, however, as it will enhance our relations to a strategic partnership. It comes at a particular time in which Saudi Arabia is swiftly transforming, opening up and diversifying its economy. For France, this will be an opportunity to show our support for Saudi Vision 2030 and the international events Riyadh will be hosting.
I will also be visiting AlUla, which is the jewel of our cultural cooperation. This visit also comes at a critical time of multiple regional and international crises. It will therefore be an opportunity to take initiatives together to foster peace, security and international prosperity. Our two countries have a major role in this respect and can also strengthen ties between this part of the world and Europe, in the spirit of the ambition shown by the recent EU-Gulf Cooperation Council Summit.
Saudi Arabia has an important role in the region. What are your expectations for its involvement in Lebanon and the region? If there is a ceasefire, what role do you think you and Saudi Arabia can play in Lebanon and Gaza?
Strengthening our political dialogue is one of our goals. France and Saudi Arabia share the same commitment to regional security and stability and will work together to find lasting political solutions to crises. That will be at the heart of our discussions with the crown prince. Our efforts to achieve a de-escalation in regional conflicts are aligned, particularly in Lebanon, Gaza, Yemen and Sudan.
We and Saudi Arabia are both convinced that a ceasefire is needed in Gaza that enables the liberation of the hostages, including our two nationals, and of course protects the people of Gaza who are in an unacceptable situation of distress, while allowing humanitarian aid to be delivered. We have been calling for this ceasefire since November, and we have been waiting too long. It must come now, it must be permanent, and it must re-open the prospect of a two-state solution. I welcome the work by Saudi Arabia and its Arab partners in defining an Arab vision for peace, updating the Arab Peace Initiative of 2002 and sketching out a pathway out of the crisis. A credible framework needs to be worked on jointly to achieve a Palestinian state and guarantee Israel’s security. The UN Security Council and everyone who has a role to play must shoulder their responsibilities.
We will not stop calling for the ceasefire in Lebanon. It is essential for all parties — and this goes for both Hezbollah and Israel — to fulfill their obligations. The international community must continue its efforts to support the Lebanese Armed Forces, which are essential to this agreement and to the restoration of Lebanon’s sovereignty, in line with the conference we held in Paris on Oct. 24 this year.
Saudi Arabia contributes to Lebanon’s stability and has a role to play in bringing an end to the political crisis. At this crucial time for Lebanon’s future, it is important for us to discuss the reconstruction of the country, as well as the political prospects of the upcoming Jan. 9 session of the Lebanese Parliament with the aim of electing a president. All Lebanese actors must contribute to the solution. Hezbollah must facilitate consensus and foster Lebanese unity.
When will France recognize the Palestinian state?
It is urgent to preserve the two-state solution and the viability of a Palestinian state in the context of increased settlement-building, the measures taken against UNRWA and growing pro-annexation discourse. It is absolutely necessary to offer Palestinians real hope of a better life in an independent state and thus cut short any source of legitimacy for Hamas, which has nothing to offer but violence and destruction. The two peoples, Israelis and Palestinians, must be offered a response to their legitimate aspirations, otherwise the region cannot hope for lasting stability.
The recognition of the Palestinian state must contribute to speeding up the two-state solution, and France is ready. In that spirit, we supported Palestine’s accession to the UN as a fully-fledged member. We have voted for all UN General Assembly resolutions in this regard. For it to happen, recognition must take place in a context that enables a lasting end to the crisis. Alongside Saudi Arabia, we will co-chair a conference to give renewed political momentum to the two-state solution and will work on this in Paris.
Will resuming dialogue with Bashar Assad enable the return of Syrian refugees in Lebanon to Syria and control of the Syria-Lebanon border to prevent Iran from rearming Hezbollah?
Recent events have clearly shown that Syria’s future needs far more than normalization with Bashar Assad. The Syrian people need unity and hope. Dialogue with the regime is not an end in itself. The fighting in recent months has pushed many refugees, along with a million displaced Lebanese people, onto the roads toward Syria, but the question remains fully open. The Syrian regime must create an environment that enables the safe return of Syrians to their country. I have discussed this recently with my European and Arab counterparts. The UN High Commissioner for Refugees is talking about it with the Syrian regime, which must provide answers. Assad cannot be Iran’s agent and undermine Israel’s security and Lebanon’s stability.
What role will France play during this ceasefire? Do you think displaced persons will be able to return to the bombarded southern villages? What role can Saudi Arabia play in the implementation of this ceasefire?
France has always stood with Lebanon and the Lebanese people and does so, once again, at this critical moment. The ceasefire agreement follows months of joint diplomatic efforts with the US, and France is contributing to the monitoring mechanism. On Oct. 24, we laid the groundwork for its implementation by holding a conference that raised €1 billion ($1.05 billion) for Lebanon, including €800 million for displaced persons and €200 million for the Lebanese Armed Forces. This effort needs to continue, and France has already decided to deploy additional engineering and mine clearance assets to support the Lebanese army. I will send our army and foreign ministers to Lebanon very soon to work on all these points. Lebanon’s reconstruction will of course be another one of our priorities and will require a sustained international effort.
Will you continue talking to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu despite France’s recognition of the International Criminal Court’s decisions? Could France’s independent judiciary itself execute the arrest warrant?
We have always supported international justice. France will fulfill its obligations under international law, in this case and all others. The judiciary’s decisions are totally independent.
France talks to everyone, and that is what enables it to play a role in the region. We must be clear-sighted: The region’s crises cannot be resolved without dialogue with the Israeli authorities.
